Fitness Sales Strategies Interview with Bedros Keuilian

Here's an interview I did with Bedros Keuilian on how to sell personal training and personal training sales techniques. Bedros is the man when it comes to helping personal trainers and coaches create effective fitness marketing and fitness sales systems so they can make more money.

Chris McCombs (CM): Bedros, what is it that you do?

Bedros Keuilian (BK): That’s a good question, Chris. What I do is I bridge the gap of income for personal trainers and fitness business owners. The average trainer today makes about $30,000 a year. I bridge the gap between $30,000 and six and seven figures, through various tools and technology that I’ve created for the industry. And these tools and technology will help personal trainers out market, out sell, and out position their competitors.

CM: How important is sales if a trainer wants to be personal training business to be successful?

BK: You know, that’s a good question. If a trainer’s definition of success is to have a handful of clients, and to give those clients phenomenal results, and hey, that’s that, and I’m okay living in an apartment, two bedroom apartment, maybe have a side job, that’s fantastic, that’s fine, if that’s your definition of success, sales is not important. If, on the other hand, your definition of success is financial freedom, security, reaching more people to be able to influence more people with fitness, then sales is a must. It’s absolutely a must, because it drives people to action. What we know in sales today is a pushy used-car salesman who makes us feel uncomfortable, and gives us sweaty palms every time we’re around them.

But really, sales is more of a transference of feelings. So, if you knew how to influence everybody to feel the same way you do about fitness and weight loss, if everybody you came in contact with could share that same passion and excitement and enthusiasm, then what would happen is, they would be more likely to invest in personal training, and stay with you for the long haul. Bottom line, that’s sales, and that’s what I teach, in addition to all the other marketing, and sales, and retention tools.

CM: A lot of trainers can’t stand selling. It makes them a little nervous. They just want to train people. What would you say to them?

BK: Well, again, don’t you feel that you get more clients if more people felt the same way that you do about fitness? And the answer to that is an enthusiastic “Yes!” It’s exactly that. It’s selling, the right way. It’s the educational process, the transference of feelings, and what I tell most personal trainers is, don’t look at it as though you’re a salesperson, as though you have to close this deal and make a commission. After all, the person across from you is gaining something much more valuable than a couple thousand dollars or a few thousand dollars over a lifetime of training. What they’re getting is, possibly, an extension of their lifespan. In other words, on the back end of their life, you may easily add two to five years of quality living to a person’s life. What is that worth to them?

So, while a salesman that we all come across– whether it’s a clothing salesman, a used car salesman, sells us things that depreciate in value, and takes money out of our pockets. Essentially, what we do as personal trainers is completely different. We improve people’s lifestyles, their outlook on the world. And that to me is priceless, and I feel that we’re obligated to do that. How do we do that? Well, don’t look at it as selling. Look at it as if you’re the assistant buyer. As the assistant buyer, you want to educate and transfer the same feelings that you have towards fitness to the person across from you. And when the person across from you feels the same way about health and fitness as you do, they’re enthusiastic, they realize the benefits of it. Sure they’re going to say yes. And all of a sudden, you’re not having to twist anybody’s arm to purchase personal training, they just come to you. It’s almost like magnetic attraction. It’s amazing.

CM: Why do people buy?

BK: Phenomenal question. People buy because of emotional reasons. People buy because they have pain, and they want to overcome this pain. People buy because they want something, not because they need something. And, if you don’t mind, let me give you a little example. Several years ago, almost ten years ago now, I came on board with a small company that was growing their personal training locations. At the time, they only had four or five locations, and they were operating out of one state. The goal was to grow into a multi-state and 50, 60, 100 location facilities. So my job was to help them grow into other states, teach them systems to market and to attract clients, and then to convert those prospects into paying clients– my job was to teach them sales and marketing, in essence. This particular incident took place in San Diego, CA, and I’ll never forget her. She was a personal trainer for this facility and her name was Linda. And I could sense her frustration when I walked in to talk with her and her sales crew. She was the head trainer there, they called it the master trainer, and her job was to sell the personal training sessions, and then give the clients the training to continue the program. Well, she was very frustrated. She had just finished a consultation with somebody, and it had gone horribly wrong, and these people were walking out as I was walking in to the facility, and she said “Bedros, turn around and take a look at those people.” And I did, and they were clearly overweight, they were swaying back and forth when they were walking out, and she said, “Guess what? I didn’t sign them up. And here, they need some exercise. And you look at their health, they’re person on Lipitor for cholesterol issues, they have high blood pressure, osteoporosis, I think the body fat percentage was something like 45%, 46% body fat.” She said, “I told them that they need this. In fact one of them told me that their doctor said, ‘Hey, you need to workout or you’re going to die!’” And guess what, at the end of this consultation, they didn’t purchase anything, Chris, and it was simply because she was selling on needs, and not wants. Of course she knew, the prospect knew that, hey, I need to lose weight or I’ll die. The doctor told me, the personal trainer told me, I’m taking Lipitor and all types of medications, and they’re giving me ill side effects. I know I need to lose weight.

But why do I want to lose weight? So Linda, our personal trainer never uncovered this person’s pain, her wants, why does she want to lose weight. Interestingly enough, Linda sat across from me and said, “You know, I need to make these sales because part of my job, my main job is I work hourly and on commission, and if I don’t make sales, I don’t get any commission. So, I don’t know what’s going on here, but I’m going broke. In fact, I need to get my brakes fixed,” she said. I said, “Oh, that’s interesting.” She said “Yeah, I hit the brake on my car, and it takes an extra hundred feet to stop, and it’s ridiculous, and I have to play guessing games with the red light across the street from me.” And I said, “So what’s the problem?” “Well, I need money. Just then, another personal trainer walked in, and happened to say to Linda, “Hey, tonight after work, I’m going to downtown San Diego, and I’m going to get a new tattoo.” Guess what Linda said, Chris… She said, “Hey, don’t go without me. I want to go, too. I want a tattoo as well.” So, all of a sudden, we found Linda’s hot button. You know, she needed her brakes fixed. She kept putting it off, essentially, she was putting her life in danger, and those driving on the streets around her.

So she knew what she needed to do with what limited funds she had, which was fix her brakes. But she wanted a tattoo. That was her hot button, her emotional trigger. And guess what, that night she went with her fellow trainer and got a tattoo. And right then and there, I grabbed her arm from across the table and said, “Linda! Guess what? When you want to do something, you find the money. And that’s exactly what happened.” And she said, “Okay. I just got it.” It was like a ton of bricks fell on her, because all of a sudden she realized that when she wants something, she’ll find a way to get the money for it. But you know she needs to fix her brakes. She’ll keep putting it off, probably until she runs into a tree. So, why do people buy? Bottom line, you have to find their pain, and discover what their wants are. The best way to do that is to go through a system of selling which we can talk about later.

CM: Is there a sales process you suggest trainers could take people through?

BK: Yes, absolutely. First and foremost, I think every personal trainer needs a system, or a sales process. Too often, personal trainers just kind of fly by the seat of their pants, and I was guilty of this. I was guilty of this when I first started, and for several years, somebody would call or walk in, and say “Hey, how much is personal training?” And I’d say, “I charge $65 an hour.” Great. $65 an hour. All they see is “Geez, this person charges more than $2 a minute. That’s more than a phone sex operator,” not to be too graphic here. My point being, there’s still no value at that point. Gee, they’re just going to base me on price and walk out, and that’s certainly what happened. That’s exactly what happens with most personal trainers today, because they don’t have a system for dealing with new prospects. Now, if you did have a system, what you would do is you’d say, well, why don’t you come in? We’ll do a needs assessment, see if we’re right for each other, and I can show you exactly the program that would work best for you, and what your investment would be.

Now when they came in, I personally am a big believer, Chris, of giving people a complimentary one-on-one session. Now I know there are others out there that say don’t ever give away a free session, you’re devaluing yourself, you shouldn’t do that– my opinion is, if you’ve got a system and a strategy to close seven or eight out of every ten people that walk in, and in fact, if you’ve got a system and strategy to close them, not on a couple hundred dollar program, but on a several thousand dollar program, wouldn’t you give away free sessions all day long, Chris?

CM: Yeah.

BK: Yeah, absolutely. Exactly right. So, the system that I created is a seven step process, and here are the seven steps.

Step one is build rapport. Step two: discover their wants. Step three: give them the benefits. Step four: build urgency. Step five: get them committed, find commitment. Step six: overcome the cost issue. Step seven: close the deal. Those are the seven steps of the closing process or the sales process, and after a one-on-one session, what that one-on-one session does, is one, it gets people to know you, like you, trust you.

It’s that rapport builder, step one. And when people know you, like you, trust you, they feel warm and fuzzy, and they’re no longer sales-resistant, which today, everybody in America walks around being sales-resistant. That’s our protection method from salespeople. So, one you need to build rapport.

Two, you need to find their wants. In other words, what is their emotional decision? What’s their buying decision? What’s their pain, their hot buttons? Great thing to do is ask a simple question, like “Why are you here today, and you didn’t bother to come in here three months ago, or six months ago?” “What brought you into my facility today?” And they might say, “Well, I’m overweight.” Well, that’s not enough to discover their wants. I understand you’re overweight. But if you just ask this question, “Well, how do you mean?” They’ll tell you, “Well, I’m overweight. Six months ago, I was overweight, but since then, I’ve gained another thirty pounds.” “Okay, Mrs. Jones. And how do you mean?” “Well, since then, my husband and I have divorced. I find that I’ve changed my wardrobe to all black.” “Okay, Mrs. Jones. How do you mean?” “Well, now that I’m single…” You see what’s happening now is you’re peeling the onion by constantly saying “Why are you here?” and “How do you mean?” And all of a sudden, you peel the onion, and you find that, wow, you’re divorced, you’re wearing black because black is slim, but let’s face it, there’s only so much black can do, you know, you can’t cover a 300-pound body with a black tarp.

So, my point is, we found her hot button: you’re divorced, you find yourself wearing black, maybe loose clothing, and those are your hot buttons. Now we know the person’s wants, and we can keep pushing those hot buttons throughout the sales process.

The next step would be the benefits process. “So, what do I get out of this?” is a natural question that the prospect would be asking. So, now we know their hot buttons, we tell them, “So, what you get out of my personal training program…” or “By us training together, this is what you get…” People don’t want to know features of your personal training. They don’t care that you’re certified. Nobody cares that you have a masters, or you’re a CFCS. Nobody cares. You should be educated, you should be on the cutting edge of your industry, but nobody cares about the features. They don’t care that your treadmill in your facility has flex-deck technology. They don’t care that you use reverse osmosis water that’s always maintained at a constant 48 degrees. What they do care about are the benefits, and never the features. So the benefits, “Well, Mrs. Jones, the amazing thing is we work together, we will reverse these processes. For example, you’ll find yourself buying clothes that are smaller in size, variety in colors, perhaps you’ll be more outgoing and have greater confidence and self-esteem, and who knows, maybe you’ll reunite with your husband, or maybe even find somebody better.” But now we know their hot buttons, and we use the benefits to push on those hot buttons.

So the next step would be urgency. Well, what is urgency? What will happen if I don’t act now? You want to get that message across to the person. Is there a timeline? Is there a health issue? Is there a graduation that’s coming up that she wants to attend? Is there a ten-year reunion? Is she going to be a bridesmaid or a matron/maid of honor in a wedding? What is the timeline? And all of this can be found in that ‘wants’ section when you’re talking to them. Why are you here? What brought you here, why didn’t you come three months ago? And as we build that urgency, and we let them know that if you act today, we can still get results by this date and time, that’s very powerful.

So, the fifth step here is commitment. Somebody once asked me, “What’s commitment? How do you get people to commit?” Commitment is a byproduct of the four steps before that. So when you have built rapport, when you’ve identified their wants, you’ve educated them on the benefits, created urgency, now you’ve got a committed prospect. And when someone’s committed, they’re ready to pull the trigger. Commitment is just a byproduct of the four steps prior to that.

Next, we have the cost issue. Well, you always have to talk about costs somehow. But you need to understand the prospect’s desire to buy, versus their ability to buy. See, when a prospect gives an objection, often times what they’re talking about is their desire to buy. When they say “I can’t afford it,” what they’re really saying is, “I don’t want to afford it. I don’t think there’s enough value here.” So when a cost issue arises, it’s usually a lack of value. Because if the person is in front of you at this point, chances are your marketing has worked, they know that personal training is not cheap, they probably have the ability to pay, but they just don’t have the desire. So when we talk about cost, we have to identify the person’s ability to pay.

Finally, the seventh and final step is the close. In my opinion, Chris, this is where all personal trainers go wrong. They’ll give Mrs. Jones a fantastic workout. They’ll build rapport. They’ll even show her urgency, and get her committed, but when it comes to saying, “Well, I want money for the services that I offer,” they get bashful. And that shouldn’t happen. What should happen is “Here are the programs that I have. I think this one or this one, A or B, will work best for you,” and you show them the price sheet, and you say, “Which one of those can we get you started on today?” Where most personal trainers go wrong is they say, “Well, I’ve got this program or that program, 30-minute sessions, 60-minute sessions, 6-month and 3-month, 8-pack and 9-pack, team training, boot camp training,” and they throw out everything, and they confuse the crap out of the prospect, and what happens with the confused prospect is they don’t purchase. Confused people don’t make decisions. Instead, they become indecisive and go home and think about it, and we’ve all heard that before. So we just want to give them two or three options, which I think, as a professional, will work the best for you. Which one can we get you started on today, as opposed to saying, what do you think? Does that make sense, Chris?

CM: Should a trainer ever negotiate on price?

BM: You know, that’s a good question. It’s neither here nor there. Again, it’s one of those things, do you give a free session, do you not? I say, to a degree, yes. Here’s what I mean by that. All of us should set a bottom line. For example, let’s say, Chris, that you offer a two times per week, three times per week, and a four times per week personal training program. Let’s say your two time a week program is $60 per session, your three time a week is $55 per session, and your four time a week is $50 per session. In other words, the more they buy, the more they save per session. That’s fantastic. What you can do is say, in the back of your mind, $50 per session is my bottom line. If I have to negotiate, if for some reason, I have to what I call “drop your pants”, you know, you’ve conquered objections, you’ve shown value, and you’re convinced that it’s a price issue, or you’re convinced that if you can give them a deal or a price break, just make them an offer they can’t refuse, then guess what, they’re going to do it, why not pull out your bottom line, say “You know what, Mr. Jones, I’ll tell you what I’ll do. If I can give you this for $50 a session, will you take action today?” Then wait for them to say yes. They’ll say “You know what, Chris. Absolutely.” “Great, here’s what I’ll do…”

Can someone negotiate on price, should they? Yeah, but have a set bottom line and stick to it. And it doesn’t matter what that bottom line is, personally. Everyone should know their own finances. For me, it was, you know, if I had a two, three, and four time a week program, and the four times a week program was my cheapest by cost per session, let’s say it was $55 per session, that was my bottom line. If I had to negotiate with Mrs. Jones and say, “Look, I know you want the two time a week program. You said you need to think about it. I gave you the opportunity to call your husband, you didn’t want to give him a call, if I can give you the two times a week program for $55, would you pull the trigger and take action today and change your life?” That might be the buying decision there, and if she says yes, then I’ll extend that offer to them, and more often than not, they’ll buy.

CM: What about the problem of “I need to check my finances” or “I need to talk it over with my husband?”

BK: Ahhh. Objections. I absolutely hate objections. There’s nothing worse than getting an objection. It’s like deflating this huge balloon of enthusiasm. You give someone a great session, they give you all the yeses, “Yes, I love this,” “Yes, I need this,” and all of a sudden, you get to the very end, and you say, “Well, here’s what I charge,” and you get that objection, “Well, I need to talk it over with my husband. I need to check my finances.” What that really means, is that when you get an objection is two things. One, the person didn’t see value. Two, no matter what objection you get, it’s a money issue. It’s an absolute money issue. And I’ll give you an example of that. If I said, “Hey, Chris, I’ve got a regular ballpoint pen here, made by Bic, and I want a hundred dollars for it, would you give me a hundred bucks for it, Chris?”

CM: Nope.

BK: No, it’s just a ballpoint pen, right?

CM: Yeah.

BK: Now, what if I increase the value of this pen by saying “Every time that you go to write yourself a check with this pen, it’s a magical pen, and you can just fill in the blanks on that check, and you can go cash it no matter what.” Would you give me a hundred bucks now?

CM: For sure.

BK: Would you give me five hundred dollars for it?

CM: Yes.

BK: Yes, because now I’ve increased the value of that pen. So, my point is, usually an objection is a money issue. They can’t afford it, and usually, a money issue is a value problem. You didn’t show them enough value for them to part away with their hard-earned dollars for your service. So, if you can increase the perceived value of the services, you should never get an objection.

Then again, most people every now and again will give an objection. And that’s okay, if you know how to handle objection. See, sometimes buyers will make a last-ditch effort by giving an objection, just to test you. And if you get deflated and you say, “Go home and think about it and come back”, they’ll fall into the trap of tomorrow, and never come back. But, if you accept that objection as a question, and answer it as a question, then you’re okay.

Here’s what I mean. Let’s say I’ve built the value and I say, “Chris, you’re getting a steal of a deal. $60 a session. Normally people would easily comfortably pay $120 a session. So, you’re getting a steal of a deal, and you truly feel that way.” And you say, “You know what, Bedros, I still feel I need to go home and think about it.” If I take that as a question, I’d say, “Chris, I understand. Can I ask what you need to think about?” Now I’m asking you a question, and you’re going to tell what you’re going to think about. And now you’re going to tell me your true objection. It may not be money; it may be a time factor, it may be that your husband’s not supportive. It may be whatever. But now, I can overcome the true objection, and usually the second time around when you take it as a question, “Well, tell me more. What did you think of me? What do you want to talk about? What would happen if you don’t pull the trigger today?” And all of a sudden, they’ll give you the real objection, and they’re going to tell you, “You know what, I don’t think anything will happen. You know what, the fact is, I was just procrastinating.” And I’ve called people many a time on that. And I’d say, “Are you sure we’re not just procrastinating and trying to throw ourselves into the trap of ‘tomorrow?’ Or hey, I’ll just start this tomorrow? Tomorrow becomes next week, next week becomes next month, and before you know it, we’ve somehow put on another twelve pounds? Don’t you think, Mrs. Jones that we can pull the trigger today and get started?” “Yes.” Yes, and it’s a done deal. So, one, take an objection as either they don’t see value, or take it as a question, answer it, overcome it, and it’s easy as pie.

CM: What is the one question I should have asked you, but didn’t?

BK: That’s a good question. Well, the e-mails that I get most often, and I get about 200 to 250 e-mails a day, luckily I have people that filter my e-mails for me, but the #1 question I get is how can marketing and selling personal training be easier? Most people have the challenge of marketing and selling personal training, which I totally understand. Personal trainers are not marketing and sales experts. More and more, we’re becoming that. And I say, well, look at something called the ‘Force Multiplier’. Actually, one of my mentors, Jay Abraham, talks about the Force Multiplier. And, for those who don’t know what force multiplying is, it’s a military term. For example, the war in Iraq that’s happening– now forget about whether you’re for it or against it, I don’t care, it doesn’t matter to me, but the fact is, when we took control in Iraq, when the U.S. military took control of Iraq, we didn’t just go in there with the Marine Corps; we didn’t just go in there with the air strikes; there was a force multiplier. There were ground units, there was air support, there was sea support, and there was psychological warfare that was happening. So we came at them from every different angle, and each one of those angles multiplied the force of the other.

So, who knows, was it the Marines, was it the ground forces, was it the air forces, was it the sea attack that threw Iraq to its knees? Nobody knows and nobody cares. But we got the desired outcome, which was to take control in Iraq. Each one of those are force multipliers. So, what I teach trainers is there’s no one easy answer. The easiest answer is to get people to know you and trust you. You do this through many ways of force multiplying.

For example, you may hold a free Saturday boot camp for the community, and the only thing you charge is a $5 fee, and you donate the entire thing to the community. Guess what? Fitness and philanthropy is a fantastic way to go and build publicity. Inevitably, your local newspaper’s going to catch wind of this, that the local personal trainer is trying to make his city the fittest city in town, and he’s only charging $5 donations – you can come train for free, or bring a $5 donation, and he’s going to donate it to Toys For Tots, or to the local schools, or wherever – now here’s the interesting thing; all of a sudden, you’re getting free press. So, one, people already like you because you’re doing something great for them. Number two, you’re getting free press, and now the media is endorsing you. That’s a force multiplier. Number two, since this is a free event that you’re holding, you decide to post a bill of posters at the local Subway and the local grocery store owners and operators, are completely endorsing you, and putting your message in their windows, handing it to their clients, another force multiplier. Before you know it, people know you, like you, trust you. And from that free Saturday fitness boot camp, you can now pluck out all the clients you need, and closing them is already far easier, because you know they like you and trust you, they’ve heard the media rave about you, local stores have endorsed you, and they’ve attended your free fitness boot camp, and they say, hey, I want to train with you more, I want to train with you three, four, five times a week. Okay, let me show you what I can do for you. And that force multiplying effect makes selling and marketing so easy, when you get it.

The challenge is, most trainers try one simple ad in the paper, it fails, and they sit in their studio or just sit around by the phone, waiting for it to ring, which often times it doesn’t, so they’ll go to a health club, and start building their business there, slowly, methodically, for $12 an hour, and that’s just not the best way to go about it.

CM: Bedros, where can people learn more about you, your products, and your services?

BK: Go to www.100newclients.com, and I promise you you’ll get more information there to change your life than you ever thought possible.

This has been a fitness sales and personal trainer marketing interview with Chris McCombs and Bedros. If you liked this interview you might like the Pat Rigsby or Pat Necerato Fitness Marketing interviews as well.